Creative Minds feedback

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where did you get in, OP?

OP here. We got offered a spot at Bethune. I had asked for feedback previously about that school, which was mostly positive, but I don’t love the space (they’re looking for a new space and will move soon) and heard about the recent turnover. Our inbound is Truesdell.

I would take Bethune over CMI, especially if Spanish is important to you. You will definitely be able to lottery into a Spanish immersion school in kindergarten.

Op here. Help me understand how you can say that so definitively about K?

NP here. I have tried for 7 years straight to get into a charter spanish school and never got a waitlist number that got me even remotely close.

Sounds like you missed the MV expansion and MV's fall from grace generally. They've cleared their Kindergarten waitlist already.

Mundo Verde and Stokes EE have been going deep into their elementary waitlists for years. Unless PP has the absolute worst lottery number multiple years in a row, I think PP is being selective about which schools they were trying for (i.e., just DCB and Stokes Brookland).

A lot of people from Petworth just want LAMB or DCB due to the commute.

Right, but it’s then disingenuous to say you/PP tried for 7 years straight to get into an immersion charter, if you were only lotterying for 1-2 schools. If you really want that DCI feed, you have to cast a wider net, including dealing with a crappy commute for a year or two.

not to mention Houston and all the other DCPS bilingual options. I would be very surprised if anyone who did a full lottery list for 7 years straight never got into a single bilingual program. If they only wanted DCI feeders with a short commute or something, I could see how someone could be shut out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former CMI parent here -

generally feedback:
- CMI had a cult following from when it opened in 2012 till about 2019. In 2019 MV8 opened its doors and it was an obvious choice for a lot of the CMI current families or families that would have gone there otherwise (similar location, but plus Spanish immersion and DCI feeder ... no brainer).
- The biggest fault of CMI is that its its too "in the middle" -- no immersion, no feeder, sad test scores -- because of this there really isn't a good reason to go there over your DCPS and parents are really forced to take a shot at the lottery every year ... which causes an extreme amount of student turnover.
3. With all of that said, the campus is lovely and you will be completely happy there in prek3/4 .. you will just likely want to lottery out as you age up.

Isn't the real problem whatever is causing the sad test scores?

it's more complicated then that because testing doesn't start till 3rd grade... and very few families coming in in prek make it that far -- so CMI is contending with a lot of kids that are Lottering in to the upper grades that may or may not be entering with math/reading proficiency

And why are people leaving?

it's the same up hill battle that DCPS faces in the upper elementary grades -- once your kids hits 2nd+ grade you have to plan for the future... If your school doesn't have a viable middle/high school you will lottery every year and that doesn't pan out you will move or go private ...

Let me phrase it another way. Why does ITS have okay retention and okay test scores while CMI does not? They both have unviable middle and high schools. So why the difference?

ITS has a viable middle school. It's quite good actually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former CMI parent here -

generally feedback:
- CMI had a cult following from when it opened in 2012 till about 2019. In 2019 MV8 opened its doors and it was an obvious choice for a lot of the CMI current families or families that would have gone there otherwise (similar location, but plus Spanish immersion and DCI feeder ... no brainer).
- The biggest fault of CMI is that its its too "in the middle" -- no immersion, no feeder, sad test scores -- because of this there really isn't a good reason to go there over your DCPS and parents are really forced to take a shot at the lottery every year ... which causes an extreme amount of student turnover.
3. With all of that said, the campus is lovely and you will be completely happy there in prek3/4 .. you will just likely want to lottery out as you age up.

Isn't the real problem whatever is causing the sad test scores?

it's more complicated then that because testing doesn't start till 3rd grade... and very few families coming in in prek make it that far -- so CMI is contending with a lot of kids that are Lottering in to the upper grades that may or may not be entering with math/reading proficiency

And why are people leaving?

it's the same up hill battle that DCPS faces in the upper elementary grades -- once your kids hits 2nd+ grade you have to plan for the future... If your school doesn't have a viable middle/high school you will lottery every year and that doesn't pan out you will move or go private ...

Let me phrase it another way. Why does ITS have okay retention and okay test scores while CMI does not? They both have unviable middle and high schools. So why the difference?

ITS has a viable middle school. It's quite good actually.

I meant, they both have unviable DCPS IB middle and high schools. The question really is why does ITS have good enough retention and a good enough middle school (if you like small schools), and CMI does not? They both serve the same grades. Similar non-language immersion, non-Montessori curriculum, similar UMC progressive feel. Similar year of founding. Similar size. Similar lack of high school. Why did ITS get over the hump of creating a viable middle school and CMI did not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former CMI parent here -

generally feedback:
- CMI had a cult following from when it opened in 2012 till about 2019. In 2019 MV8 opened its doors and it was an obvious choice for a lot of the CMI current families or families that would have gone there otherwise (similar location, but plus Spanish immersion and DCI feeder ... no brainer).
- The biggest fault of CMI is that its its too "in the middle" -- no immersion, no feeder, sad test scores -- because of this there really isn't a good reason to go there over your DCPS and parents are really forced to take a shot at the lottery every year ... which causes an extreme amount of student turnover.
3. With all of that said, the campus is lovely and you will be completely happy there in prek3/4 .. you will just likely want to lottery out as you age up.

Isn't the real problem whatever is causing the sad test scores?

it's more complicated then that because testing doesn't start till 3rd grade... and very few families coming in in prek make it that far -- so CMI is contending with a lot of kids that are Lottering in to the upper grades that may or may not be entering with math/reading proficiency

And why are people leaving?

it's the same up hill battle that DCPS faces in the upper elementary grades -- once your kids hits 2nd+ grade you have to plan for the future... If your school doesn't have a viable middle/high school you will lottery every year and that doesn't pan out you will move or go private ...

Let me phrase it another way. Why does ITS have okay retention and okay test scores while CMI does not? They both have unviable middle and high schools. So why the difference?

ITS has a viable middle school. It's quite good actually.

I meant, they both have unviable DCPS IB middle and high schools. The question really is why does ITS have good enough retention and a good enough middle school (if you like small schools), and CMI does not? They both serve the same grades. Similar non-language immersion, non-Montessori curriculum, similar UMC progressive feel. Similar year of founding. Similar size. Similar lack of high school. Why did ITS get over the hump of creating a viable middle school and CMI did not?

ITS may do a better job with discipline and behavior management. This was an issue at TRY for us beginning in 3rd grade; we left prior to 4th grade—there’s no way TR can run a decent MS given their “we don’t observe any bullying” approach to discipline. I’ve heard similar stories from friends with kids at Creative Minds.
Classroom management is where many of these charter schools fall apart in upper ES. If your kid is in a classroom of complete chaos (or worse being bullied), you likely won’t see language immersion as being such a priority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former CMI parent here -

generally feedback:
- CMI had a cult following from when it opened in 2012 till about 2019. In 2019 MV8 opened its doors and it was an obvious choice for a lot of the CMI current families or families that would have gone there otherwise (similar location, but plus Spanish immersion and DCI feeder ... no brainer).
- The biggest fault of CMI is that its its too "in the middle" -- no immersion, no feeder, sad test scores -- because of this there really isn't a good reason to go there over your DCPS and parents are really forced to take a shot at the lottery every year ... which causes an extreme amount of student turnover.
3. With all of that said, the campus is lovely and you will be completely happy there in prek3/4 .. you will just likely want to lottery out as you age up.

Isn't the real problem whatever is causing the sad test scores?

it's more complicated then that because testing doesn't start till 3rd grade... and very few families coming in in prek make it that far -- so CMI is contending with a lot of kids that are Lottering in to the upper grades that may or may not be entering with math/reading proficiency

And why are people leaving?

it's the same up hill battle that DCPS faces in the upper elementary grades -- once your kids hits 2nd+ grade you have to plan for the future... If your school doesn't have a viable middle/high school you will lottery every year and that doesn't pan out you will move or go private ...

Let me phrase it another way. Why does ITS have okay retention and okay test scores while CMI does not? They both have unviable middle and high schools. So why the difference?

ITS has a viable middle school. It's quite good actually.

I meant, they both have unviable DCPS IB middle and high schools. The question really is why does ITS have good enough retention and a good enough middle school (if you like small schools), and CMI does not? They both serve the same grades. Similar non-language immersion, non-Montessori curriculum, similar UMC progressive feel. Similar year of founding. Similar size. Similar lack of high school. Why did ITS get over the hump of creating a viable middle school and CMI did not?

ITS may do a better job with discipline and behavior management. This was an issue at TRY for us beginning in 3rd grade; we left prior to 4th grade—there’s no way TR can run a decent MS given their “we don’t observe any bullying” approach to discipline. I’ve heard similar stories from friends with kids at Creative Minds.
Classroom management is where many of these charter schools fall apart in upper ES. If your kid is in a classroom of complete chaos (or worse being bullied), you likely won’t see language immersion as being such a priority.

If that's true, behavior at CMI and TR must be pretty bad. It's not great at ITS middle, and it's kind of the elephant in the room as the school tries to reconcile its philosophical commitments with the desire to reduce bullying and violence.

Maybe it's the higher adult-child ratio at ITS due to the teaching residents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former CMI parent here -

generally feedback:
- CMI had a cult following from when it opened in 2012 till about 2019. In 2019 MV8 opened its doors and it was an obvious choice for a lot of the CMI current families or families that would have gone there otherwise (similar location, but plus Spanish immersion and DCI feeder ... no brainer).
- The biggest fault of CMI is that its its too "in the middle" -- no immersion, no feeder, sad test scores -- because of this there really isn't a good reason to go there over your DCPS and parents are really forced to take a shot at the lottery every year ... which causes an extreme amount of student turnover.
3. With all of that said, the campus is lovely and you will be completely happy there in prek3/4 .. you will just likely want to lottery out as you age up.

Isn't the real problem whatever is causing the sad test scores?

it's more complicated then that because testing doesn't start till 3rd grade... and very few families coming in in prek make it that far -- so CMI is contending with a lot of kids that are Lottering in to the upper grades that may or may not be entering with math/reading proficiency

And why are people leaving?

it's the same up hill battle that DCPS faces in the upper elementary grades -- once your kids hits 2nd+ grade you have to plan for the future... If your school doesn't have a viable middle/high school you will lottery every year and that doesn't pan out you will move or go private ...

Let me phrase it another way. Why does ITS have okay retention and okay test scores while CMI does not? They both have unviable middle and high schools. So why the difference?

ITS has a viable middle school. It's quite good actually.

I meant, they both have unviable DCPS IB middle and high schools. The question really is why does ITS have good enough retention and a good enough middle school (if you like small schools), and CMI does not? They both serve the same grades. Similar non-language immersion, non-Montessori curriculum, similar UMC progressive feel. Similar year of founding. Similar size. Similar lack of high school. Why did ITS get over the hump of creating a viable middle school and CMI did not?

ITS may do a better job with discipline and behavior management. This was an issue at TRY for us beginning in 3rd grade; we left prior to 4th grade—there’s no way TR can run a decent MS given their “we don’t observe any bullying” approach to discipline. I’ve heard similar stories from friends with kids at Creative Minds.
Classroom management is where many of these charter schools fall apart in upper ES. If your kid is in a classroom of complete chaos (or worse being bullied), you likely won’t see language immersion as being such a priority.

If that's true, behavior at CMI and TR must be pretty bad. It's not great at ITS middle, and it's kind of the elephant in the room as the school tries to reconcile its philosophical commitments with the desire to reduce bullying and violence.

Maybe it's the higher adult-child ratio at ITS due to the teaching residents.

TR and CMI have the same struggles; but I know kids who identify as LGBTQ+ at both schools who have been targeted related to gender/sexuality identity issues. So much for inclusion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is CMI going to move to a new location?

No

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is CMI going to move to a new location?

No

What are they going to do when they run out of room?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where did you get in, OP?

OP here. We got offered a spot at Bethune. I had asked for feedback previously about that school, which was mostly positive, but I don’t love the space (they’re looking for a new space and will move soon) and heard about the recent turnover. Our inbound is Truesdell.

I would take Bethune over CMI, especially if Spanish is important to you. You will definitely be able to lottery into a Spanish immersion school in kindergarten.

Op here. Help me understand how you can say that so definitively about K?

NP here. I have tried for 7 years straight to get into a charter spanish school and never got a waitlist number that got me even remotely close.

Even DCB and Stokes go through waitlists in the upper grades because people don’t want to start their 2nd grader in a dual language school. We have gotten offers from both in upper grades with not great waitlist numbers.

[Anonymous]

Stokes Brookland French has zero waitlist now if you are looking for a dci feeder

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former CMI parent here -

generally feedback:
- CMI had a cult following from when it opened in 2012 till about 2019. In 2019 MV8 opened its doors and it was an obvious choice for a lot of the CMI current families or families that would have gone there otherwise (similar location, but plus Spanish immersion and DCI feeder ... no brainer).
- The biggest fault of CMI is that its its too "in the middle" -- no immersion, no feeder, sad test scores -- because of this there really isn't a good reason to go there over your DCPS and parents are really forced to take a shot at the lottery every year ... which causes an extreme amount of student turnover.
3. With all of that said, the campus is lovely and you will be completely happy there in prek3/4 .. you will just likely want to lottery out as you age up.

Isn't the real problem whatever is causing the sad test scores?

it's more complicated then that because testing doesn't start till 3rd grade... and very few families coming in in prek make it that far -- so CMI is contending with a lot of kids that are Lottering in to the upper grades that may or may not be entering with math/reading proficiency

And why are people leaving?

it's the same up hill battle that DCPS faces in the upper elementary grades -- once your kids hits 2nd+ grade you have to plan for the future... If your school doesn't have a viable middle/high school you will lottery every year and that doesn't pan out you will move or go private ...

Let me phrase it another way. Why does ITS have okay retention and okay test scores while CMI does not? They both have unviable middle and high schools. So why the difference?

ITS has a viable middle school. It's quite good actually.

I meant, they both have unviable DCPS IB middle and high schools. The question really is why does ITS have good enough retention and a good enough middle school (if you like small schools), and CMI does not? They both serve the same grades. Similar non-language immersion, non-Montessori curriculum, similar UMC progressive feel. Similar year of founding. Similar size. Similar lack of high school. Why did ITS get over the hump of creating a viable middle school and CMI did not?

ITS may do a better job with discipline and behavior management. This was an issue at TRY for us beginning in 3rd grade; we left prior to 4th grade—there’s no way TR can run a decent MS given their “we don’t observe any bullying” approach to discipline. I’ve heard similar stories from friends with kids at Creative Minds.
Classroom management is where many of these charter schools fall apart in upper ES. If your kid is in a classroom of complete chaos (or worse being bullied), you likely won’t see language immersion as being such a priority.

TR4 much the same. Somewhere along the way they decided "equity" meant you couldn't hold kids to behavioral standards. It created an environment where behavioral issues grew exponentially over the course of years as kids realized there were no real consequences. The cluster f*** at TR MS this year (delayed start after Christmas break) was not hard to see coming. TR4 and TRY ES spent years telling kids that there would be no consequences for misbehavior. Kids who could get out did, problem kids remained while new kids came in and saw the culture was amendable to chaos. Add in pre-teen and teen hormones and you had a recipe for disaster.

[Anonymous]

What grade is zero waitlist?

As a Francophone family we’ve been trying to get in with three kids over the past 4 lottery years but have never had good enough numbers (got to #3 with oldest kid for K last year by October). We do hope one day we get in and are fine with it being at an upper grade, but would prefer sooner rather than later just for longer term stability for our kids.

Anonymous wrote:Stokes Brookland French has zero waitlist now if you are looking for a dci feeder

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
What grade is zero waitlist?

As a Francophone family we’ve been trying to get in with three kids over the past 4 lottery years but have never had good enough numbers (got to #3 with oldest kid for K last year by October). We do hope one day we get in and are fine with it being at an upper grade, but would prefer sooner rather than later just for longer term stability for our kids.

Anonymous wrote:Stokes Brookland French has zero waitlist now if you are looking for a dci feeder

https://www.myschooldc.org/short-waitlists

For 5th

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former CMI parent here -

generally feedback:
- CMI had a cult following from when it opened in 2012 till about 2019. In 2019 MV8 opened its doors and it was an obvious choice for a lot of the CMI current families or families that would have gone there otherwise (similar location, but plus Spanish immersion and DCI feeder ... no brainer).
- The biggest fault of CMI is that its its too "in the middle" -- no immersion, no feeder, sad test scores -- because of this there really isn't a good reason to go there over your DCPS and parents are really forced to take a shot at the lottery every year ... which causes an extreme amount of student turnover.
3. With all of that said, the campus is lovely and you will be completely happy there in prek3/4 .. you will just likely want to lottery out as you age up.

Isn't the real problem whatever is causing the sad test scores?

it's more complicated then that because testing doesn't start till 3rd grade... and very few families coming in in prek make it that far -- so CMI is contending with a lot of kids that are Lottering in to the upper grades that may or may not be entering with math/reading proficiency

And why are people leaving?

it's the same up hill battle that DCPS faces in the upper elementary grades -- once your kids hits 2nd+ grade you have to plan for the future... If your school doesn't have a viable middle/high school you will lottery every year and that doesn't pan out you will move or go private ...

Let me phrase it another way. Why does ITS have okay retention and okay test scores while CMI does not? They both have unviable middle and high schools. So why the difference?

ITS has a viable middle school. It's quite good actually.

I meant, they both have unviable DCPS IB middle and high schools. The question really is why does ITS have good enough retention and a good enough middle school (if you like small schools), and CMI does not? They both serve the same grades. Similar non-language immersion, non-Montessori curriculum, similar UMC progressive feel. Similar year of founding. Similar size. Similar lack of high school. Why did ITS get over the hump of creating a viable middle school and CMI did not?

ITS may do a better job with discipline and behavior management. This was an issue at TRY for us beginning in 3rd grade; we left prior to 4th grade—there’s no way TR can run a decent MS given their “we don’t observe any bullying” approach to discipline. I’ve heard similar stories from friends with kids at Creative Minds.
Classroom management is where many of these charter schools fall apart in upper ES. If your kid is in a classroom of complete chaos (or worse being bullied), you likely won’t see language immersion as being such a priority.

TR4 much the same. Somewhere along the way they decided "equity" meant you couldn't hold kids to behavioral standards. It created an environment where behavioral issues grew exponentially over the course of years as kids realized there were no real consequences. The cluster f*** at TR MS this year (delayed start after Christmas break) was not hard to see coming. TR4 and TRY ES spent years telling kids that there would be no consequences for misbehavior. Kids who could get out did, problem kids remained while new kids came in and saw the culture was amendable to chaos. Add in pre-teen and teen hormones and you had a recipe for disaster.

NP--Yep, this, +100. Also a former TR family.
It's just HARD to raise kids in this city; by MS, it gets near impossible without some serious $$$ to explore other options (private). My kids are in HS now thanks to serious lottery luck, so they are settled and we won't move. But I wish we had moved in early ES--my friends with kids in Montgomery County/Arlington County schools have just had an easier time when it comes to educating their kids--even those with kids who have special needs. There are tradeoffs to living in the suburbs/city--I ultimately don't think it's been worth it to stay in the city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But why did CMI not keep up with "better" charters? I understand some people want language immersion, but what about ITS, TR, ELHaynes?

Another old timer here. CMI’s model was set to fail from beginning. They were focusing on small class sizes which meant that they needed to hire a lot of new teachers. In fact, CMI hired quite a few ITS teachers in training for many years. ITS’s model was larger classrooms but with 1 very experienced teacher and a teacher in training. The model worked well. Also, having strong leadership matters a lot. No school is perfect but I’ve never understood why CMI remained to be popular despite their dismal scores. But then I reminded myself it’s likely the same reason Banneker has white kids in single digits 😂.