How do you raise winners?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But I do believe, supported by both evidence from my own life, observation of others, and psychological studies, that people do best in life when they feel comfortable in their own skin, accepted and loved by their support system, and feel like they have agency in they own lives. Is this the way to make an investment banker? Probably not, no. But if you can love and support your kids, provide firm boundaries and guidance, and allow them independence to be their own people, I think you have the best shot at them becoming adults who will be able to set and achieve their goals (or recalibrate when necessary in the face of failure, instead of melting down).

Seriously, who wants to raise an investment banker? But accepted and loved and comfortable in their own skin is important. That’s easy if they never leave the house. The negative forces out there start to wear some people down. Maybe your child wants to be a farmer but he’s in a school full of investment banker wannabes who ridicule his dream every day. Or the kid that’s a little odd looking but is or was happy until no one would play with her because she was “scary” looking. The constant cruelty is like a daily war.


Sometimes it’s not the parents fault their child isn’t doing well. Sometimes it’s the hurt and nastiness of people out in the world that pick the life out of them.

DP here. If my kid wanted to be an investment banker, or a farmer, or anything in between. I would be incredibly proud of them. It is not my life. It is not my neighbor's life. It is not my frenemy's life. It is the kid's life. Point blank. Nothing will change that it is not anyone else's life but theirs. Nothing. Ever.

Too many people use careers that bring in a lot of money as signs of success or winners. You know there’s a lot of pushing to be something that the parents want and too many think their kids want the same life they grew up in. Maybe, maybe not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But I do believe, supported by both evidence from my own life, observation of others, and psychological studies, that people do best in life when they feel comfortable in their own skin, accepted and loved by their support system, and feel like they have agency in they own lives. Is this the way to make an investment banker? Probably not, no. But if you can love and support your kids, provide firm boundaries and guidance, and allow them independence to be their own people, I think you have the best shot at them becoming adults who will be able to set and achieve their goals (or recalibrate when necessary in the face of failure, instead of melting down).

Seriously, who wants to raise an investment banker? But accepted and loved and comfortable in their own skin is important. That’s easy if they never leave the house. The negative forces out there start to wear some people down. Maybe your child wants to be a farmer but he’s in a school full of investment banker wannabes who ridicule his dream every day. Or the kid that’s a little odd looking but is or was happy until no one would play with her because she was “scary” looking. The constant cruelty is like a daily war.


Sometimes it’s not the parents fault their child isn’t doing well. Sometimes it’s the hurt and nastiness of people out in the world that pick the life out of them.

+1 I interview for an Ivy university as an alum, and I've yet to see any teenager say they want to be an investment banker. The hours are long, and the work is mostly soul crushing. The kids who want to be investment bankers are those with huge student loans to pay off (who usually aren't that aware of the pay scales in the top finance jobs before they enter their elite colleges) or those whose parents were in those careers and can help them get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How do you raise children that can set, meet goals and succeed in what they want?

By letting them do things they are interested in and passionate about instead of trying to not be a loser.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You do not have to be good.
You do not have to walk on your knees
for a hundred miles through the desert repenting.
You only have to let the soft animal of your body
love what it loves.
Tell me about despair, yours, and I will tell you mine.
Meanwhile the world goes on.
Meanwhile the sun and the clear pebbles of the rain
are moving across the landscapes,
over the prairies and the deep trees,
the mountains and the rivers.
Meanwhile the wild geese, high in the clear blue air,
are heading home again.
Whoever you are, no matter how lonely,
the world offers itself to your imagination,
calls to you like the wild geese, harsh and exciting -
over and over announcing your place
in the family of things.

-- Mary Oliver

Shut up

+100

DH and I make a comfortable income and live in an UMC area in the DMV, but we were both the first in our families to go to college and are from low-income backgrounds. We KNOW for a fact that our grit, perseverance, and mental toughness were what got us to where we are.

Instilling that in our kids when they have the comforts of an UMC existence is not easy. But by being strict parents (none of that "gentle parenting" BS) and instilling firm boundaries and family rules in our kids -- I will force my kids to get a minimum wage job when they turn 16, as well as require them to play a team sport in high school and take the most rigorous course load that their high school offers -- I know that our kids will have the resilience necessary for future success.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You do not have to be good.
You do not have to walk on your knees
for a hundred miles through the desert repenting.
You only have to let the soft animal of your body
love what it loves.
Tell me about despair, yours, and I will tell you mine.
Meanwhile the world goes on.
Meanwhile the sun and the clear pebbles of the rain
are moving across the landscapes,
over the prairies and the deep trees,
the mountains and the rivers.
Meanwhile the wild geese, high in the clear blue air,
are heading home again.
Whoever you are, no matter how lonely,
the world offers itself to your imagination,
calls to you like the wild geese, harsh and exciting -
over and over announcing your place
in the family of things.

-- Mary Oliver

Shut up

+100

DH and I make a comfortable income and live in an UMC area in the DMV, but we were both the first in our families to go to college and are from low-income backgrounds. We KNOW for a fact that our grit, perseverance, and mental toughness were what got us to where we are.

Instilling that in our kids when they have the comforts of an UMC existence is not easy. But by being strict parents (none of that "gentle parenting" BS) and instilling firm boundaries and family rules in our kids -- I will force my kids to get a minimum wage job when they turn 16, as well as require them to play a team sport in high school and take the most rigorous course load that their high school offers -- I know that our kids will have the resilience necessary for future success.

Do you force them to get 100s on all their exams too? Just wondering how you do that.

[Anonymous]

Honest answer: make them feel like love is conditional and given only in breadcrumbs based on accomplishment, and that doing only okay at something is the same as being a miserable shameful failure. Your kids will spend their lives trying to fill the void inside them where your unconditional love and acceptance should be with achievements.

This is what my parents did with me, and I am a very successful person with many “wins.” But I have spent a lot of time in therapy to make sure I don’t parent my own kids that way and instead encourage them to define and seek happy lives on their own terms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you raise children that can set, meet goals and succeed in what they want?

By modeling those skills yourself. Your kids learn by watching you.

Many exceptionally privileged people who I know who have successful parents are not exceptional and have struggled with mental health and substance abuse, and even if they seem to have things together (decent job, spouse, kids, lux lifestyle, $2M home) a lot of that is due to the fact that their parents were able to throw money at problems to make those problems go away and then finance their lives as adults.

So many privileged kits lack grit and drive. And maybe some of that is seeing how much their parents sacrificed to get to where they are and deciding they don’t want that life.

But that’s privileged and sounds like mental issues and not skilled or successful.

OP wants to know how to raise winners! Not rich losers.

Winners can be rich or poor.

They are parented broadly, nurtured to find their passions, interests, strengths and weaknesses. Then given the best education, training and resources in their strengths as possible. Be that boarding school, elite sports coaches and programs, or teach to potential, challenging arts or academic programs.

Then their parents let them fly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You make achievements important. You prioritize education, sports, whatever they are showing interest in and help facilitate them working toward success and improvement.

It isn’t about winning everything or being the best, it’s the work and the process. It’s being motivated to work.

One of the biggest problems with “kids these days” is apathy. They just DGAF- a large number anyway.

This.

Don’t be passive


I’ve met way more adults who wish their parents pushed to be better at school or at a sport they had natural talents at, or a subject matter they found cool, than the opposite.

But their parents didn’t. Their parents took No for an answer. And the kid because average. They will never know what could have been had the 12 yo said No. and the parents merely accepted that lackadaisicalness as decision making.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But I do believe, supported by both evidence from my own life, observation of others, and psychological studies, that people do best in life when they feel comfortable in their own skin, accepted and loved by their support system, and feel like they have agency in they own lives. Is this the way to make an investment banker? Probably not, no. But if you can love and support your kids, provide firm boundaries and guidance, and allow them independence to be their own people, I think you have the best shot at them becoming adults who will be able to set and achieve their goals (or recalibrate when necessary in the face of failure, instead of melting down).

Seriously, who wants to raise an investment banker? But accepted and loved and comfortable in their own skin is important. That’s easy if they never leave the house. The negative forces out there start to wear some people down. Maybe your child wants to be a farmer but he’s in a school full of investment banker wannabes who ridicule his dream every day. Or the kid that’s a little odd looking but is or was happy until no one would play with her because she was “scary” looking. The constant cruelty is like a daily war.


Sometimes it’s not the parents fault their child isn’t doing well. Sometimes it’s the hurt and nastiness of people out in the world that pick the life out of them.

Nah.
The investment bankers like everyone.

They’ll tell the farmer to go to Schol if Ag in WI, go work for Cargill or Smithfield’s, or JGB and then call them when they need some debt or M&A or commodity hedging.

Don’t knock IB, there are TONS of exit opps for an analyst with 2-3 years of experience. And they’ll have a big network, of hard working over achievers about to branch out to clients, industry, the buyside, non profits, b school, government, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But I do believe, supported by both evidence from my own life, observation of others, and psychological studies, that people do best in life when they feel comfortable in their own skin, accepted and loved by their support system, and feel like they have agency in they own lives. Is this the way to make an investment banker? Probably not, no. But if you can love and support your kids, provide firm boundaries and guidance, and allow them independence to be their own people, I think you have the best shot at them becoming adults who will be able to set and achieve their goals (or recalibrate when necessary in the face of failure, instead of melting down).

Seriously, who wants to raise an investment banker? But accepted and loved and comfortable in their own skin is important. That’s easy if they never leave the house. The negative forces out there start to wear some people down. Maybe your child wants to be a farmer but he’s in a school full of investment banker wannabes who ridicule his dream every day. Or the kid that’s a little odd looking but is or was happy until no one would play with her because she was “scary” looking. The constant cruelty is like a daily war.


Sometimes it’s not the parents fault their child isn’t doing well. Sometimes it’s the hurt and nastiness of people out in the world that pick the life out of them.

I don't want to lecture, but parents can support their kids even through difficulties like this so that they can come out the other side liking themselves and comfortable in their own skin.

If your kid is not accepted by peers, or is consistently being bullied or harassed, you need to get in there and address these issues. You find your farm-loving kid some kind of program where they can be around other farm-loving kids, and you remind them regularly that you accept them for who they are and don't care if they don't want to be an investment banker like their classmates. If it's really bad, you consider moving your kid to another school with more variety where there's a greater chance they find their place. If your kid is being bullied for ostracized for their looks, you stick up for them, find ways for them to appreciate non-aesthetic things about themselves, provide them for support for looking their best, whatever you need to give them a shot at feeling good about themselves and learning to let that kind of criticism and cruelty go.

Above all, I think one of the most important things parents can do is create a home that is a haven for kids, whatever they encounter in the world. A place where they are loved and can be themselves. I think the biggest mistake I see parents making is trying to "toughen up" their kids by being hard to them, trying to prepare them for the cruelty of the world by building cruelty into family life. This will not work. You break kids this way. Even if a kid gets very "tough" as a result of this, it's a fragile toughness because now they have nowhere to go where they can be vulnerable, where they can lick wounds or build themselves up. You need to offer your kids a safe haven because the world IS cruel and they'll have to deal with that cruelty. Provide at least one place where they can escape it.

Amen.

Kids sense of self and inner confidence can really blossom in high school. Let that happen, with guardrails so it’s the positive stuff!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you raise children that can set, meet goals and succeed in what they want?

By modeling those skills yourself. Your kids learn by watching you.

Many exceptionally privileged people who I know who have successful parents are not exceptional and have struggled with mental health and substance abuse, and even if they seem to have things together (decent job, spouse, kids, lux lifestyle, $2M home) a lot of that is due to the fact that their parents were able to throw money at problems to make those problems go away and then finance their lives as adults.

So many privileged kits lack grit and drive. And maybe some of that is seeing how much their parents sacrificed to get to where they are and deciding they don’t want that life.

I think this is what OP is asking about. When you're kids grow up in a wealthy home, the privilege just comes to them. They don't learn the self-motivated grit that made their parents' successful. How do you teach that, when the kids are cocooned in privilege?

Taking away some of the privilege - being intentional and aware as parents; accepting your children for who they are and encouraging them to pursue a path that they are passionate about that is also financially viable; and allowing your children to fail and learn from mistakes.

+1. You ca not pick their school and major (for one example, I have seen it) and expect them to get excited and be passionate about what they are doing, OP. Likewise, you can not spend your time trying to degrade others efforts and accomplishments. If you exercise self control and ambition, then your kids will, too.

You make suggestions.
You provide observations.
You ask them questions.

Then let them think and decide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But I do believe, supported by both evidence from my own life, observation of others, and psychological studies, that people do best in life when they feel comfortable in their own skin, accepted and loved by their support system, and feel like they have agency in they own lives. Is this the way to make an investment banker? Probably not, no. But if you can love and support your kids, provide firm boundaries and guidance, and allow them independence to be their own people, I think you have the best shot at them becoming adults who will be able to set and achieve their goals (or recalibrate when necessary in the face of failure, instead of melting down).

Seriously, who wants to raise an investment banker? But accepted and loved and comfortable in their own skin is important. That’s easy if they never leave the house. The negative forces out there start to wear some people down. Maybe your child wants to be a farmer but he’s in a school full of investment banker wannabes who ridicule his dream every day. Or the kid that’s a little odd looking but is or was happy until no one would play with her because she was “scary” looking. The constant cruelty is like a daily war.


Sometimes it’s not the parents fault their child isn’t doing well. Sometimes it’s the hurt and nastiness of people out in the world that pick the life out of them.

+1 I interview for an Ivy university as an alum, and I've yet to see any teenager say they want to be an investment banker. The hours are long, and the work is mostly soul crushing.

The kids who want to be investment bankers are those with huge student loans to pay off (who usually aren't that aware of the pay scales in the top finance jobs before they enter their elite colleges) or those whose parents were in those careers and can help them get in.

Sorry, but nope and nope to your whole last paragraph.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone is flaming OP but I worry about this too. I never blame my kids for things they can't help but I am very strict about things that will affect them socially and academically. Neither of my kids are popular, athletic or gifted. So I crack down on rudeness, "shyness" that is really just social laziness, sloppy schoolwork that I know can be done better, gross things like nose-picking, and so on. I also don't let them watch YouTube or have unsupervised Internet access. I feel like a mean mom but I have multiple male relatives who fell into the underachieving video gamer trap.

If your kids aren’t attractive, smart, or charming, then constantly “cracking down” on them won’t help. If you were prettier and smarter, they’d be better off.

You will, however, buy some lucky therapist a vacation home.

[Anonymous]

I’m aiming for resilience, independence, a good work ethic, and self-confidence. If my kids have those things, I figure they’ll have the tools they need to “succeed.”