Amex, Visa, MC to start tracking gun sales

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Financial services and institutions should simply make the names of anyone who purchased a gun or gun related item available for all to see on a public database. Let their neighbors and everyone else know they bought a gun. Then people can make use of red flag laws to petition courts to have those guns confiscated. We have the resources in place. People just need to make use of them.

I want to know who has a gun so I can avoid them. I am raising a brown kid who is a total baby but could look threatening I guess because of his size. I don’t want him having any sort of misunderstandings with a frightened gun owner who might choose to “defend himself”. In my opinion, gun owners are generally frightened of their own shadows and are actually the people I would not want having a gun. Given that we can’t seem to make any progress on not arming every American, maybe we should focus on protecting ourselves from the gun nuts instead.

“Brown kids” have a much bigger chance of getting killed by a peer than by some right wing gun owning boogeyman. Of course, you knew this.

Not my brown kid being raised in the suburbs. He is more at risk from a nut. Right wing or otherwise.

He is susceptible to all the ills of a suburban lifestyle - like drugs, pressure that leads to depression etc. But he is really not at significant risk for getting killed by a peer.

Simply false. Hispanic/Black homicides in suburbs is lower than urban environments but still significantly higher than White and Asian. Crime statistics also indicate that the victims are overwhelmingly of the same race as the attacker.

Share the data for brown kids. Btw, Indian kids might be classified as “Asian” but could present as brown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Financial firm analytics can probably predict with pinpoint accuracy who will end up committing mass shootings based on demographics and other spending habits.

It will be fascinating what they do with this powerful data

Clearly they should arrest and try them for murder before crimes are committed!

DP. It says so much about you that you jump right to trying and convicting without it occurring to you that there may be constructive ways to address this, like intervening to provide mental health treatment.

What do you think intervention is?

NP here:

If an 18 year-old male goes out and buys an arsenal + body armor soon after their birthday, I think it's worth flagging for LEOs so they can do a follow-up wellness check plus look into juvenile crime databases for a history of issues. T

These mass shooters usually have pretty similar stories and backgrounds - young, male, purchases firearms legally, a history of mental health issues or anti-social behaviors, trouble in school or home life, etc. If data scientists had access to these young men's internet and marketing history, I guarantee they could create a very accurate score-based predictive model.

The entire point is to intervene and get these guys into mental health services BEFORE they do something. Weekly talk therapy by itself would probably do wonders for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Law-abiding gun owners won’t care. Criminals use cash

Exactly. Are they really this stupid? Track away. Criminals aren't about to use credit cards to purchase illegal firearms.

So, another one who didn’t even bother to read the OP.

Here’s a clue - a lot of people who commit mass choosing don’t expect to survive so they don’t care about credit card records.

Actually, I did read the OP. They mention the Pulse nightclub shooter as their one example. Hardly "a lot."

Most mass shooters bought their weapons legally. This will not stop all gun violence but it will stop some- isn’t that better than nothing? We have got to try something for gods sake.

How? Be specific.

[Anonymous]

If they’re tracking women’s periods, why not guns?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If they’re tracking women’s periods, why not guns?!

seriously. WTF is wrong with gun nutters. Inhaled too much gun smoke or something?

[Anonymous]

Pay cash.

[Anonymous]

The Pulse shooter had two guns and lots of ammo. Had he had to pay cash, perhaps he would've had one gun and less ammo.

He killed 49 and injured 53. An additional 5 were injured during the chaos.

Maybe if he had one gun and less ammo, there would not have been over 100 casualties.

This is not complicated...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Law-abiding gun owners won’t care. Criminals use cash

Exactly. Are they really this stupid? Track away. Criminals aren't about to use credit cards to purchase illegal firearms.

So, another one who didn’t even bother to read the OP.

Here’s a clue - a lot of people who commit mass choosing don’t expect to survive so they don’t care about credit card records.

Actually, I did read the OP. They mention the Pulse nightclub shooter as their one example. Hardly "a lot."

Most mass shooters bought their weapons legally. This will not stop all gun violence but it will stop some- isn’t that better than nothing? We have got to try something for gods sake.

How? Be specific.

Making it harder to buy a gun decreases gun violence. There is tons of data on this. Law abiding gun owners shouldn’t care about a waiting period to buy a firearm. The ones I know don’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Pay cash.

This.
For many years class 3 sales have been in cash. Class 2 will just follow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:About time. They track clothing sales, food sales, healthcare sales.. why not gun sales.

Of course, the gun nutters claim that even expensive gun safe sales will be categorized as "gun sale", but if you have nothing to hide, not seeing the big deal here.

The FL nightclub shooter bought $26k worth of guns/ammo on his credit card. That would've been flagged had this tracking been in place. Banks will have the option to decline the purchase, and before you say that's unAmerican, no, that's capitalism. Banks have the right to decline a purchase. It's happened to me a few times, including when I tried to pay $6000 for my kid's braces. I had to call them to have them release the funds. Why shouldn't they do that for large gun purchases?

Banks were pressured by large pension holders, one of the largest being the teacher's pension fund in CA and NY. Good for them. Teachers are in the frontlines when it comes to our children's safety at school.

https://apnews.com/article/gun-violence-shootings-new-york-city-politics-4aae50c67e40f9683f604a8683acc391

What are banks supposed to do with this information? Prevent sales beyond some limit? Report something to the FBI?

I don't have a problem in principle but there's a slippery slope -- should banks contact the DMV if you buy alcohol frequently?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:About time. They track clothing sales, food sales, healthcare sales.. why not gun sales.

Of course, the gun nutters claim that even expensive gun safe sales will be categorized as "gun sale", but if you have nothing to hide, not seeing the big deal here.

The FL nightclub shooter bought $26k worth of guns/ammo on his credit card. That would've been flagged had this tracking been in place. Banks will have the option to decline the purchase, and before you say that's unAmerican, no, that's capitalism. Banks have the right to decline a purchase. It's happened to me a few times, including when I tried to pay $6000 for my kid's braces. I had to call them to have them release the funds. Why shouldn't they do that for large gun purchases?

Banks were pressured by large pension holders, one of the largest being the teacher's pension fund in CA and NY. Good for them. Teachers are in the frontlines when it comes to our children's safety at school.

https://apnews.com/article/gun-violence-shootings-new-york-city-politics-4aae50c67e40f9683f604a8683acc391

What are banks supposed to do with this information? Prevent sales beyond some limit? Report something to the FBI?

I don't have a problem in principle but there's a slippery slope -- should banks contact the DMV if you buy alcohol frequently?

Per link above, "merchant codes just track the type of merchant where the credit or debit card is used, not the actual items purchased."

Is this true? If so, folks will just buy weapons at Walmart?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Financial services and institutions should simply make the names of anyone who purchased a gun or gun related item available for all to see on a public database. Let their neighbors and everyone else know they bought a gun. Then people can make use of red flag laws to petition courts to have those guns confiscated. We have the resources in place. People just need to make use of them.

Criminals always use their Amex cards to purchase guns. /s

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Pulse shooter had two guns and lots of ammo. Had he had to pay cash, perhaps he would've had one gun and less ammo.

He killed 49 and injured 53. An additional 5 were injured during the chaos.

Maybe if he had one gun and less ammo, there would not have been over 100 casualties.

This is not complicated...

Considering other family members of his fled overseas, I don’t think it would have mattered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Financial services and institutions should simply make the names of anyone who purchased a gun or gun related item available for all to see on a public database. Let their neighbors and everyone else know they bought a gun. Then people can make use of red flag laws to petition courts to have those guns confiscated. We have the resources in place. People just need to make use of them.

Criminals always use their Amex cards to purchase guns. /s

It might not work for criminals who probably pay cash for black market weapons, but it would be a useful tool for removing guns from the general public.

For example, if the name and address of someone down the street from you who bought a gun was posted on a public database published by financial institutions, you would know that person was a danger to society because they have a gun. You can then go to the court in your locality and petition for a red flag order to be served against that person who just bought that gun. The police will serve a warrant and seize the gun (and any other present) and conduct an investigation into that person. Even if the guns are eventually returned, you can simply file another red flag petition and start the whole process over. If everyone did this to even one person they knew who owned a gun, we could essentially eliminate guns in a few years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Financial services and institutions should simply make the names of anyone who purchased a gun or gun related item available for all to see on a public database. Let their neighbors and everyone else know they bought a gun. Then people can make use of red flag laws to petition courts to have those guns confiscated. We have the resources in place. People just need to make use of them.

Criminals always use their Amex cards to purchase guns. /s

It might not work for criminals who probably pay cash for black market weapons, but it would be a useful tool for removing guns from the general public.

For example, if the name and address of someone down the street from you who bought a gun was posted on a public database published by financial institutions, you would know that person was a danger to society because they have a gun. You can then go to the court in your locality and petition for a red flag order to be served against that person who just bought that gun. The police will serve a warrant and seize the gun (and any other present) and conduct an investigation into that person. Even if the guns are eventually returned, you can simply file another red flag petition and start the whole process over. If everyone did this to even one person they knew who owned a gun, we could essentially eliminate guns in a few years.

This is a brilliant strategy. What would we need to do to red flag gun nutters we know now and those who are exposed later?